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distributing trial version using virtual machines

Source: microsoft.public.virtualpc
Sent: 05/19/2009
From: Hendrik Schober <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Hi,

I have been assigned the task to find out whether it is
possible to distribute trial versions of a rather complex
and hard-to-install software using virtual machines. That
is, instead of the lengthy, error-prone, and quite support-
intensive installation process of a trial version at a
customer's we would like to distribute a virtual machine
that has everything pre-installed and pre-configured. The
guest OS needed is Windows Server 2003.
The virtual machines should be easy to install, but I don't
see how simple cloning could work, since the trial software
is time-limited.
And am I allowed to distribute an installed, but not yet
activated Windows? If not, what about Windows trial versions?
If those neither, are there other ways to do this?

I cannot believe I'm the first one to tackle this. Anyone
having some knowledge and ideas to share?

TIA,

Hendrik

Post Reply | This is Spam! | Mark as Spam

Related Messages

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 05/19/2009
From: "Steve Jain [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

On Tue, 19 May 2009 15:08:28 +0200, Hendrik Schober <(email address - cut out)>
wrote:

You should contact Microsoft directly for an authoritative answer on
this, bu no, you cannot distribute installed and activated OSes
(unless you're an OEM) and you can't resdistribute trial OSes with
involving Microsoft.
You should contact your local MS sales or service rep.

--
Cheers,
Steve Jain, Virtual Machine MVP
http://vpc.essjae.com/

Show quoted text

>Hi,
>
>I have been assigned the task to find out whether it is
>possible to distribute trial versions of a rather complex
>and hard-to-install software using virtual machines. That
>is, instead of the lengthy, error-prone, and quite support-
>intensive installation process of a trial version at a
>customer's we would like to distribute a virtual machine
>that has everything pre-installed and pre-configured. The
>guest OS needed is Windows Server 2003.
>The virtual machines should be easy to install, but I don't
>see how simple cloning could work, since the trial software
>is time-limited.
>And am I allowed to distribute an installed, but not yet
>activated Windows? If not, what about Windows trial versions?
>If those neither, are there other ways to do this?
>
>I cannot believe I'm the first one to tackle this. Anyone
>having some knowledge and ideas to share?
>
>TIA,
>
>Hendrik

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 05/19/2009
From: (email address - cut out)
Message:

On May 19, 9:08=A0am, Hendrik Schober <(email address - cut out)> wrote:

Usually there is documentation with the trialware/shareware that
describes how the software should be distributed. Any deviation is a
violation of that. Almost all shareware/trialware has to be
distributed in it's original form. (If you care about being legit)

Show quoted text

> Hi,
>
> I have been assigned the task to find out whether it is
> possible to distribute trial versions of a rather complex
> and hard-to-install software using virtual machines. That
> is, instead of the lengthy, error-prone, and quite support-
> intensive installation process of a trial version at a
> customer's we would like to distribute a virtual machine
> that has everything pre-installed and pre-configured. The
> guest OS needed is Windows Server 2003.
> The virtual machines should be easy to install, but I don't
> see how simple cloning could work, since the trial software
> is time-limited.
> And am I allowed to distribute an installed, but not yet
> activated Windows? If not, what about Windows trial versions?
> If those neither, are there other ways to do this?
>
> I cannot believe I'm the first one to tackle this. Anyone
> having some knowledge and ideas to share?
>
> TIA,
>
> Hendrik

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 05/19/2009
From: VanguardLH <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Hendrik Schober wrote:

Rather than distribute a huge image that contains the OS, why not use
software virtualization to distribute a virtual layer for the
application (with possible different versions of the layer for when it
is installed on different version of the OS)?

Altris SVS has their software virtualization product. There is a free
version but I don't think you can use it for commercial purposes. The
idea is to have employees retrieve the pre-configured virtual layer for
an application from the company's server and use that image on their
host. It doesn't include an OS, just all the files and folders (in a
virtualized environment) for the application, so you need to install
their SVS client on the user's host. In fact, using virtual app
layering, you could install multiple versions of the same product
without any conflicts (you would only activate one layer at a time;
i.e., the layers for the multiple versions would be mutually exclusive
and you load just one version). The user could bounce between different
versions of, say, Winzip or a web browser without the user doing any
install of the Winzip apps or each version of it.

While software virtualization allows controlled images of those apps to
run on the user's host, allows multiple version access, and reduces
helpdesk overhead (just have the user reload the layer's image), and
although "virtualization" is involved in this process, once a layer is
activated it appears to exist on the real host just as if you installed
the application on the real host. That means you do not use SVS to
isolate your apps from your host in an anti-malware scheme. Once
activated, there is no isolation between OS and apps on the real host to
the virtualized app.

Altiris got swallowed up by Symantec. www.altiris.com leads you to a
Symantec site. The free stuff is at http://www.svsdownloads.com/. I
don't know if the free version has kept in sync with the commercial
stuff from Symantec (I suspect not). Rather than distribute a large
image with OS and app, you might be able to distribute a much smaller
image of just the virtualized app layer.

I think xenocode.com is trying to come with something similar (I noticed
SVS is involved in their product as a technology but not necessarily
associated with Altiris or Symantec). This, I think, has you store your
apps online and the users get it from there. For example, they have
their http://www.xenocode.com/Browsers/ web page where you download and
install their plug-in that runs a virtualized environment on your host
into which a compact version of the app is ran. If you can put your app
on the web and have it run in a virtualized environment on the user's
host, you don't have to include the huge disk space for an OS and users
don't pollute their host with your app (which also makes it easier for
you to slide in new versions as they become available, as is also
possible with SVS which can push new versions to users' hosts that have
subscribed to the app's layer).

Show quoted text

> Hi,
>
> I have been assigned the task to find out whether it is
> possible to distribute trial versions of a rather complex
> and hard-to-install software using virtual machines. That
> is, instead of the lengthy, error-prone, and quite support-
> intensive installation process of a trial version at a
> customer's we would like to distribute a virtual machine
> that has everything pre-installed and pre-configured. The
> guest OS needed is Windows Server 2003.
> The virtual machines should be easy to install, but I don't
> see how simple cloning could work, since the trial software
> is time-limited.
> And am I allowed to distribute an installed, but not yet
> activated Windows? If not, what about Windows trial versions?
> If those neither, are there other ways to do this?
>
> I cannot believe I'm the first one to tackle this. Anyone
> having some knowledge and ideas to share?
>
> TIA,
>
> Hendrik

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 05/19/2009
From: Jakob Bohm <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Hendrik Schober wrote:

The "Microsoft ISV Royalty Licensing Program" seems to fit your needs
nicely, for more information see

https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40012214

Especially note the "End user demonstrations" and "End user evaluations"
headlines on the "Partner benefits" tab of that page.

The scheme requires you to resell at least $5000/year of non-demo
licenses for the Microsoft part of your Windows+application bundle
over a 3 year contract period.

--=20
Jakob B=F8hm, M.Sc.Eng. * (email address - cut out) * direct tel:+45-45-90-25-33
Netop Solutions A/S * Bregnerodvej 127 * DK-3460 Birkerod * DENMARK
http://www.netop.com * tel:+45-45-90-25-25 * fax:+45-45-90-25-26
Information in this mail is hasty, not binding and may not be right.
Information in this posting may not be the official position of Netop
Solutions A/S, only the personal opinions of the author.

Show quoted text

> Hi,
>=20
> I have been assigned the task to find out whether it is
> possible to distribute trial versions of a rather complex
> and hard-to-install software using virtual machines. That
> is, instead of the lengthy, error-prone, and quite support-
> intensive installation process of a trial version at a
> customer's we would like to distribute a virtual machine
> that has everything pre-installed and pre-configured. The
> guest OS needed is Windows Server 2003.
> The virtual machines should be easy to install, but I don't
> see how simple cloning could work, since the trial software
> is time-limited.
> And am I allowed to distribute an installed, but not yet
> activated Windows? If not, what about Windows trial versions?
> If those neither, are there other ways to do this?
>=20
> I cannot believe I'm the first one to tackle this. Anyone
> having some knowledge and ideas to share?
>=20
> TIA,
>=20
> Hendrik

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 05/19/2009
From: Hendrik Schober <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Steve Jain [MVP] wrote:

Thanks, we'll do this.
Anything regarding the technical problems? How do I go
about creating such VMs?

Hendrik

Show quoted text

> On Tue, 19 May 2009 15:08:28 +0200, Hendrik Schober <(email address - cut out)>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been assigned the task to find out whether it is
>> possible to distribute trial versions of a rather complex
>> and hard-to-install software using virtual machines. That
>> is, instead of the lengthy, error-prone, and quite support-
>> intensive installation process of a trial version at a
>> customer's we would like to distribute a virtual machine
>> that has everything pre-installed and pre-configured. The
>> guest OS needed is Windows Server 2003.
>> The virtual machines should be easy to install, but I don't
>> see how simple cloning could work, since the trial software
>> is time-limited.
>> And am I allowed to distribute an installed, but not yet
>> activated Windows? If not, what about Windows trial versions?
>> If those neither, are there other ways to do this?
>>
>> I cannot believe I'm the first one to tackle this. Anyone
>> having some knowledge and ideas to share?
>>
>> TIA,
>>
>> Hendrik
>
> You should contact Microsoft directly for an authoritative answer on
> this, bu no, you cannot distribute installed and activated OSes
> (unless you're an OEM) and you can't resdistribute trial OSes with
> involving Microsoft.
> You should contact your local MS sales or service rep.

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 05/19/2009
From: Hendrik Schober <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Jakob Bohm wrote:

I don't think so. Remember, this is for giving away
free trials, not for selling software. If customers
decide to buy the product after they have seen the
trial, they already have their own OS licenses.
There's going to be no revenue from selling MS
software in this.

Hendrik

Show quoted text

> Hendrik Schober wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been assigned the task to find out whether it is
>> possible to distribute trial versions of a rather complex
>> and hard-to-install software using virtual machines. That
>> is, instead of the lengthy, error-prone, and quite support-
>> intensive installation process of a trial version at a
>> customer's we would like to distribute a virtual machine
>> that has everything pre-installed and pre-configured. The
>> guest OS needed is Windows Server 2003.
>> The virtual machines should be easy to install, but I don't
>> see how simple cloning could work, since the trial software
>> is time-limited.
>> And am I allowed to distribute an installed, but not yet
>> activated Windows? If not, what about Windows trial versions?
>> If those neither, are there other ways to do this?
>>
>> I cannot believe I'm the first one to tackle this. Anyone
>> having some knowledge and ideas to share?
>>
>> TIA,
>>
>> Hendrik
>
> The "Microsoft ISV Royalty Licensing Program" seems to fit your needs
> nicely [...]

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 05/20/2009
From: Hendrik Schober <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

VanguardLH wrote:

Because this would still require users to setup everything
necessary to try the software -- something which is far more
complicated than most users want to do for a trial.

Hendrik

Show quoted text

> Hendrik Schober wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been assigned the task to find out whether it is
>> possible to distribute trial versions of a rather complex
>> and hard-to-install software using virtual machines. That
>> is, instead of the lengthy, error-prone, and quite support-
>> intensive installation process of a trial version at a
>> customer's we would like to distribute a virtual machine
>> that has everything pre-installed and pre-configured. The
>> guest OS needed is Windows Server 2003.
>> The virtual machines should be easy to install, but I don't
>> see how simple cloning could work, since the trial software
>> is time-limited.
>> And am I allowed to distribute an installed, but not yet
>> activated Windows? If not, what about Windows trial versions?
>> If those neither, are there other ways to do this?
>>
>> I cannot believe I'm the first one to tackle this. Anyone
>> having some knowledge and ideas to share?
>>
>> TIA,
>>
>> Hendrik
>
> Rather than distribute a huge image that contains the OS, why not use
> software virtualization to distribute a virtual layer for the
> application (with possible different versions of the layer for when it
> is installed on different version of the OS)?
> [...]

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 05/20/2009
From: Jakob Bohm <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Hendrik Schober wrote:

Look again, the program includes permission to hand out trials with a
preconfigured 120 day trial version of Windows Server included.

Reselling those $15000 of non-trial Microsoft licenses could be seen as
the price for participating (meaning you sell them to yourself and scrap
them), or you could offer your finished product in a similar
pre-configured bundle and persuade some customers to purchase the bundle
rather than use one of their own Windows Server licenses.

--=20
Jakob B=F8hm, M.Sc.Eng. * (email address - cut out) * direct tel:+45-45-90-25-33
Netop Solutions A/S * Bregnerodvej 127 * DK-3460 Birkerod * DENMARK
http://www.netop.com * tel:+45-45-90-25-25 * fax:+45-45-90-25-26
Information in this mail is hasty, not binding and may not be right.
Information in this posting may not be the official position of Netop
Solutions A/S, only the personal opinions of the author.

Show quoted text

> Jakob Bohm wrote:
>> Hendrik Schober wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have been assigned the task to find out whether it is
>>> possible to distribute trial versions of a rather complex
>>> and hard-to-install software using virtual machines. That
>>> is, instead of the lengthy, error-prone, and quite support-
>>> intensive installation process of a trial version at a
>>> customer's we would like to distribute a virtual machine
>>> that has everything pre-installed and pre-configured. The
>>> guest OS needed is Windows Server 2003.
>>> The virtual machines should be easy to install, but I don't
>>> see how simple cloning could work, since the trial software
>>> is time-limited.
>>> And am I allowed to distribute an installed, but not yet
>>> activated Windows? If not, what about Windows trial versions?
>>> If those neither, are there other ways to do this?
>>>
>>> I cannot believe I'm the first one to tackle this. Anyone
>>> having some knowledge and ideas to share?
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>>
>>> Hendrik
>>
>> The "Microsoft ISV Royalty Licensing Program" seems to fit your needs
>> nicely [...]
>=20
> I don't think so. Remember, this is for giving away
> free trials, not for selling software. If customers
> decide to buy the product after they have seen the
> trial, they already have their own OS licenses.
> There's going to be no revenue from selling MS
> software in this.
>=20
> Hendrik

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 05/20/2009
From: Jakob Bohm <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

VanguardLH wrote:
d

o
s

As an alternative, the OP could distribute a bootable DVD which either
runs the configured system or installs it on an empty partition. The
DVD should not care if it runs on real or virtual hardware, and should
be pretested with the most common real and virtual hardware (And include
drivers for it, such as VM extensions). One tool to do this is BartPE
(free but does not include the Windows license). Another tool is the
=2Ewim tools in the deployment toolkit for Server 2008.

A 3rd option would be to look for a VM player that doesn't require a
heavy duty installation but could be run directly from the trial DVD.
Older versions of qemu were like that, but emulation could be slow.

--=20
Jakob B=F8hm, M.Sc.Eng. * (email address - cut out) * direct tel:+45-45-90-25-33
Netop Solutions A/S * Bregnerodvej 127 * DK-3460 Birkerod * DENMARK
http://www.netop.com * tel:+45-45-90-25-25 * fax:+45-45-90-25-26
Information in this mail is hasty, not binding and may not be right.
Information in this posting may not be the official position of Netop
Solutions A/S, only the personal opinions of the author.

Show quoted text

> Hendrik Schober wrote:
>=20
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>> Hendrik Schober wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...
>=20
> You could Google search on how to make a bootable CD or DVD image
> (depends on how much byte size that the OS and application required) an=
> distribute your ware as a bootable disc. Of course, as others have
> alluded, you will need to get a redistributor license from Microsoft to=
> include runnable copies of Windows in every virtual machine. Um, you d=
> know that virtual machines load *operating systems*, not applications,
> right? The OS in the VM runs the application.
>=20
> ...
>=20
> Based on your comment, just WHY are you requiring that your potential
> customers must install VirtualPC for a *trial* of your product? That i=
> obviously not a non-painful method (to them) of using a trial. You
> actually can ensure that every one or even a majority of your potential=
> customers has VPC already installed?

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 05/20/2009
From: Robert Riebisch <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Hendrik Schober wrote:

1) http://www.applikr.com/ is still in private beta.
2) How about installing a terminal server at your site and giving
limited access to your customers?

--
Robert Riebisch
Bitte NUR in der Newsgroup antworten!
Please reply to the Newsgroup ONLY!

Show quoted text

> I cannot believe I'm the first one to tackle this. Anyone
> having some knowledge and ideas to share?

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 06/04/2009
From: Hendrik Schober <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Jakob Bohm wrote:

Thanks, but I don't think this is going to fly here.

Hendrik

Show quoted text

> Hendrik Schober wrote:
>> Jakob Bohm wrote:
> [...]
>>> The "Microsoft ISV Royalty Licensing Program" seems to fit your needs
>>> nicely [...]
>> I don't think so. Remember, this is for giving away
>> free trials, not for selling software. If customers
>> decide to buy the product after they have seen the
>> trial, they already have their own OS licenses.
>> There's going to be no revenue from selling MS
>> software in this.
>>
>> Hendrik
>
> Look again, the program includes permission to hand out trials with a
> preconfigured 120 day trial version of Windows Server included.
>
> Reselling those $15000 of non-trial Microsoft licenses could be seen as
> the price for participating (meaning you sell them to yourself and scrap
> them), or you could offer your finished product in a similar
> pre-configured bundle and persuade some customers to purchase the bundle
> rather than use one of their own Windows Server licenses.

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 06/04/2009
From: Hendrik Schober <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Robert Riebisch wrote:

And can thus not be evaluated by me.
(However, I doubt any of these in-your-browser
thingies are going to work in this case anyway.)

That might work. I'll check that.

Thanks,

Hendrik

Show quoted text

> Hendrik Schober wrote:
>
>> I cannot believe I'm the first one to tackle this. Anyone
>> having some knowledge and ideas to share?
>
> 1) http://www.applikr.com/ is still in private beta.
> 2) How about installing a terminal server at your site and giving
> limited access to your customers?

Re: distributing trial version using virtual machines

Sent: 06/04/2009
From: Hendrik Schober <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Jakob Bohm wrote:

The problem is that there's more to getting a
working demo than what installers usually do.

I'm told VirtualBox would do this, too.

But there's more problems to solve:
How to setup some pre-configured system from which
a fully running system can can quickly be generated
on-demand?
What about licensing issues (especially for Windows)?

Hendrik

Show quoted text

> [...]
> As an alternative, the OP could distribute a bootable DVD which either
> runs the configured system or installs it on an empty partition. [...]
> A 3rd option would be to look for a VM player that doesn't require a
> heavy duty installation but could be run directly from the trial DVD.
> Older versions of qemu were like that, but emulation could be slow.

Post Reply | This is Spam! | Mark as Spam

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